An Interview with AMI President André Roberfroid

AMI President André Roberfroid discussed the work of his organization in an interview with Public School Montessorian’s Holly Hilgenberg during the San Francisco Centenary celebration Feb. 18. i...@montessori-ami.org

How did you get into this position?

By chance. It all started in the year 2000. AMI had a Congress in Paris and UNICEF was requested to send somebody to deliver a keynote speech. At that time I was the Deputy Executive Director of UNICEF. I went, gave my speech, had good time and left. That was my first encounter with Montessori. I had almost never heard of it before.

However, I had some interesting feelings that day. There was a lot of energy and a huge number of young people who were really expressing a sort of frustration for more action. There were clearly interesting people.

I went on with my life, and two years later I retired from UNICEF. Renilde Montessori, who was in Paris, had obviously liked what I said there. So she managed to find me and asked me if I would join them at a meeting of Educateurs sans Frontières in Spain, to come as a stimulator. So I went and spent three days with them, and at the end of three days, they took me aside and said, “Would you become our president?” Just like that.
It certainly came as a surprise. So my initial reply was: “Well, give me two weeks to investigate. I don’t know who you are. I don’t want to be president of a sect.” As I still had my contacts in the UN, I could do a little bit of investigation. It turned out to be very positive and I said, “Oh that is interesting! Okay, let’s do it.” And that’s it.

You spoke in the opening address against the divisions within the Montessori community and said that you hope to move from division to diversity. Is AMI working with other organizations to spread Montessori?

Yes. We are starting to do that. We have not done it for a number of years and that is what I call division, versus diversity.

Why did it happen?

History. The fact that the Montessori concept and method is not protected, legally speaking, means the name is in the public domain. So we have the situation where anybody can claim to be a Montessorian.

Second, the movement started from one person, Maria Montessori. But soon her followers have developed different branches and then they became schools of thought. As usual in the world of education, people become very emotional. And they start saying, “I’m doing it the right way; the others are wrong.”

However, the fact is that if we want to have an impact, we need the numbers, and the numbers are in diversity. Instead of looking for our differences, let’s look for what we have in common. And we have a lot in common. We can build from that, create a relationship of mutual respect, see what each other is doing, share it so we can raise quality.

You ask if we are working with others. Yes, it has started.

The main centenary celebration in Rome in January 2007, on the day of the anniversary, was organized with Opera Montessori of Italy, which is not an AMI organization.

It is clear to me that most Montessorians want to move ahead. Not to develop our respective organizations, but to support the development of the Montessori movement and the impact it has on the lives of children.

It doesn’t mean that we should compromise our specific contributions to the movement. AMI’s main contribution to the movement, I believe, is the quality of our training programs.

Others have other qualities. Some are communicating much better. Some are much better at managing numbers and so on. The high-quality training process of AMI must be maintained and continually improved, but it must also be made available to more and more people.

With numbers being a problem and with training programs being a strong point of AMI, are there specific plans to provide more people with AMI training?

Having recognized that we were short of trainers, we are accelerating the process of training teacher trainers. We realize that our process is demanding and quite difficult in terms of conditions of living, cost and so forth.

So we are working at ways to make it a little easier for the people both in terms of allowing for a modular approach, looking for new sources of financing—fellowships, scholarships and what have you. The process has started; we have currently more trainees than we’ve ever had.

We have started multiplying the number of training courses and centers, mostly in the emerging countries. In Mexico, we have a strong interest. Also Thailand, China, Australia, and Japan. It seems that East Asia is an area where we’re booming.

China’s numbers are overwhelming. Nobody among the existing Montessori capacities in the world today can support China alone. Clearly China wants Montessori and clearly they mean business. It will need the help of all of us. And if we want to have an impact, that’s what we need to do.

It’s a process that will take years. This is the very, very beginning of it. The point I want to make is that in my discussions with the partners there is no forbidden subject. Everything can be discussed.

So people are open...

I believe that an essential part of the Montessori principle is the respect for each other. Let’s practice what we preach. That’s what I believe.

You had mentioned learning from the child. Is that where a lot of this is coming from?

Certainly intellectually. I myself am not a practitioner of Montessori. I’m not a teacher, I’m not Montessori trained. I came from UNICEF. But what I have in common with Montessorians is a commitment to the rights of the child. I consider myself a child’s rights militant.

The child can be the source of a positive change in society. Look at the Convention on the Rights of the Child and try to imagine the kind of world we would live in if we were able to implement all these rights. We would clearly live in a different society. We would have to give every child access to education, health and water. We would have to have a society where everybody’s voice can be heard. In fact Maria Montessori played a major role in the formulation of the concept of the rights of the child during the first part of the twentieth century. So we actually have a lot in common.

The most important message of Maria Montessori—and what I am advocating strongly now—is that the method is by no means final and complete. It is a continuing and evolving concept. Maria Montessori said it herself many times, we must continue the scientific observation and continue to enrich the method. We have not done well enough at that. All of us. Not only AMI—all of us. We tend to think that now we have the method, we know how to train people and educate children, we do it well and everything is fine.

I believe that there is more to it. Not only because the world is changing but because the complexity of the child is such that we are never finished. So I think that we must revive and re-energize the research part of our work. And that’s an area where it is probably easy to work together.

Take for example the research of Angeline Lillard, Ph.D. That has been taken up by all Montessorians—AMI, AMS, all of them. We are equally interested and fascinated by what she discovered.

So research may be another element that will help us to overcome the historical differences that we may have. Let’s face it—a lot of the difference is because of egos. And children are too important to have to pay because of that.

I know it’s demanding for a lot of people to overcome their egos and sense of petty competition. Well that’s how it has got to be. We have no choice. We cannot keep talking about the big social movement and changing the future of children, but saying no one can join me because his pink tower is two centimeters smaller than this one. That is simply not acceptable.

There is talk about bringing Montessori principles into other sectors of society— police, childcare, health care, social services. Any thoughts?

This is a difficult question. All of us keep repeating that Montessori’s legacy is a method and a source of change. We all say that. And I think most of us agree, but I don’t think we practice it in a conscious and organized matter. AMI supports a movement called Educateurs sans Frontières, trying to bring together Montessorians’ initiatives in various parts of the world. It’s one avenue, an interesting one. But it’s not enough.

I see some new approaches. In France, after the riots in the suburbs, a number of Montessorians believe that we may have a positive contribution. They are currently getting involved with various social groups in these particular areas. The Montessori approach could be an instrument of change in the way people are relating to each other.

These are very, very initial first steps. Still very much not organized, but I think there is a perception among the majority of us that we cannot just continue to talk about it.

And our world needs it. When you look at the impact that the Montessori method has on children in terms of socialization, in terms of building more positive relationships, I believe that society could benefit a lot from that.

One of the photos in the NAMTA exhibit was of African children learning their lessons in a truck container. Do you see it as detrimental to spread Montessori education without the proper resources? What do we do in developing countries that are lacking materials and teachers?

I think that, again, it’s not everything or nothing. The materials can be easily manufactured locally. It’s not rocket science. It’s very simple.

If the children can have a nice shining school, it is fine. But if you cannot, better to have one than none. In Africa I’ve seen schools in the open air. You might not have the very best environment for the children, but it is so much better than what they have if you are already initiating the process. We must not wait for having everything and I think that’s the beauty of the method.

We often hear that Montessori is good but expensive. But it’s expensive because, in my opinion, it is currently spread mostly among rich people. And then the rich people tend to make it expensive to keep it to themselves. That doesn’t have to be.

Why?

What’s the most costly part of education? It’s the personnel. It’s not more expensive than traditional education. And I repeat the material does not have to be expensive.

The photo of the container that you referred to may look shocking. It does give the impression that the children are overcrowded in an unhealthy environment. However I also believe that the message is, “whatever the conditions are, do the best you can for the children.” The quality of the education process does not depend only on the beauty of the environment or the quality of the material. It’s linked to the adequacy of the material and how it’s being used. But, you know, you can make it in ivory or precious stone, it won’t do better.

So the environment and the materials can be modified given the circumstances?

The specification are very important, in fact essential. But whether they are made with precious wood or cardboard is useful but not essential.

But what about teachers? And teacher training?

Teacher training is an area where we cannot compromise the quality. Again, it’s not necessarily a matter of money. It is a matter of time. That’s our main, most difficult constraint. It’s time. Clearly there is no shortcut in training a teacher.

You need to spend time to build within yourself the capacity to relate to children in the required manner. And no matter how good you are, you cannot shortcut. You have to have these hours of exposure and learning and reflection. You know, we don’t make a doctor in six weeks.

On the other hand we can use, or start looking at, the use of new technologies to multiply the number of trainees for one trainer. So far it seems that using distance learning does not generate the required quality. I’m not saying that the training process we have cannot change at all. Everything can change, and must change. But we must maintain quality. And the quality of the outcome has a lot to do with the quality of the relationship that the new teacher can establish with the children. And that you can’t do by proxy.

You had talked before about the issue of public schools versus private schools. One of the big points of contention in the United States is public schools taking on Montessori and implementing it in a kind of hybrid. Do you see that hybrid as being better than nothing?

Yes.

Not everyone would agree with you on that.

I know, but I stick to my point.

I have spent my life, 30 years of my life, with children in the most awful circumstances, and believe me, if you were to tell these kids, “I’m sorry, I can’t give you the best, therefore you have nothing,” this is not acceptable. You cannot do that.

So yes, if I can have a half a glass of water, I would rather have it than no water at all. It’s just as simple as that. For me, it’s a matter of principle. If you can do something to improve, you do it. Otherwise it’s an elitist attitude where only, as the situation is today, the wealthiest part of the population can have access to it because it costs too much to have the very best.

On the other hand, I remember visiting a public school in Hartford, Connecticut. Hartford is not a very rich community and that school is in the middle of the poorest area. And yet the children are offered the best of the best. They’ve got good equipment, materials, teachers, space, you name it. It proves that when a community decides to go for that, it can. It’s not because it’s public and the children are poor.

So you know the best is possible. The idea that unless I have the best I have nothing, I will never buy that. Never.

Do you see ways of improving those programs?

Well we have a group of people who have started reflecting on that. I know that Steve Huffman is starting to gather, every year, a number of public schools to reflect on that. This is clearly a very typical US problem and I’m not quite familiar with it.

I’m more used to the situation in Europe, where the problem is that they are too centralized, and it’s even more difficult in a way to step in, the whole system has to accept it.

The UK has had some interesting experiences. Holland and Italy have more. China is coming—literally tens of thousands, mostly public schools. So, the world is changing rapidly.

I keep telling my colleagues, if we do not adjust to this new world, if we do not lead the change, then we will end up being a museum. People will visit it for a while. That’s it, you know, and then we’ve vanished.

Is centenary good will going to lead to any changes?

The centenary is an extraordinary, a wonderful opportunity, no doubt, no doubt. Wherever I go, I meet Montessorians. Most of the time I do not know if they are AMI, AMS, Opera, or others. I’ve counted hundreds of different species, (laughs) but there is a very strong sense of having something very precious in common.
When I send that positive signal, I always hear the others sending it back, with the same positive attitude. So it’s a process of virtue that has started here. Let’s give it time to take its course.

I do not believe that we could just organize a big meeting and sort out all the problems, no. That’s not the way it works. But in more and more situations if we work together, change will happen. I am very confident.

What about getting adolescents? Are they a growing emphasis?

Adolescents remain a major area of constructive research. Some Montessorians are very advanced; like David Kahn and his farm school in Cleveland and a few others, around the world. But it’s true this part needs further elaboration. Maria Montessori wrote about it towards the end of her life but basically she left it to us to continue the development of the method.

If we want to have the impact that I was saying earlier, of helping to generate, to create a new generation, then the last few years of adolescence are very important, in terms of positive socialization, in relation to the world of competition in which we are. So this is a process of research, and I repeat, there has not been enough time. David Kahn is a leader in that field, keeping up the pressure. He’s one example of reaching across all the various groups of Montessori showing how we can work together.

The good thing about the adolescent work is that we do not yet have a core established method, there’s no sense of property, there is no sense of “this is the way I do it.” So this is an area we can much more easily work together.

Can Montessori change the world?

Montessori will not change the world. Montessori will offer to children the opportunity to do it.

We are creating an opportunity for children to grow enough of the self-confidence that is needed to relate in a positive and peaceful manner with others. They will constitute a new generation that can confront problems rather than confronting each other.

We are not building a new society. We are only creating a situation where by children will have a chance to do it